Trying to Make Sense of Waco

Bret Anthony Johnston uses multiple points of view to write a thriller-esque young-love literary novel ensconced within the battleground that existed in Waco, Texas between David Koresh and his Branch Davidians, and law enforcement (local, ATF, and FBI). In his version, Koresh is Perry or “The Lamb,” as in the Lamb of God.  Johnston tells the story of young teenagers in love: a girl inside the compound and a boy outside (who happens to be the sheriff’s son). For a good article on the author, go here. We Burn Daylight dodges making fierce judgment on the situation: we see complex characters and motives. Along with Jaye (the girl inside) and Roy (the boy outside), we are introduced to multiple characters who guest on a podcast called “On the Lamb.” 

Lara: Let me start by saying thank you for agreeing to read this with me. I do realize a book about cults is an easy sell for you. So let’s hard launch our thoughts on this: What did you think?

Jennifer: Yeah, I was, like, LET’S DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

So, I don’t actually read a lot on cults but I love a good cult documentary on Netflix or Hulu. This book, then, could be risky. Would it be sensationalistic BS? 

Lo and behold, it’s Bret Anthony Johnston, who I’ve bever read before. He writes very well. The individual sentences were dreamy. I think I really want to assert that: this is a literary exploration of humanity, and it rises above cultic sensationalism. My guess is that this book is underrated? Under the radar for readers?

Here’s a sample passage:

“My shoulders jammed painfully toward my gut. Like I was wrapped in duct tape. Like someone put a plastic bag over my head and cinched it around my windpipe. I couldn’t cough. I choked. Another thought of snakes: I was a field mouse, already dead and swallowed, the reptile’s ancient muscles crushing my irrelevant bones.”

Elsewhere and continuously, Jaye refers to Roy as “My Pilgrim,” which is a sweet epithet. I find this better than “babe.” 

Lara: I really liked it too! And, through it, I got you to a great documentary on Netflix about the whole WACO fiasco. As for the book, I heard about it from one of my favorite podcasts: Book Talk, etc. and knew I wanted to read it. When I learned it had a full cast narration, I listened to it and it was great from the opening:

“In those first few weeks of 1993, before my family broke apart and before the March fires, before the world turned its lurid attention our way and before her and before everything else that changed me, I was fourteen years old and learning to pick locks.” – Roy

We were in our early twenties when the 51-day stand off at Mt. Carmel in Waco, Texas occurred. Did you remember a lot of that? How true to historical events was the story?

Jennifer: So, I have a memory of Waco happening. I guess I was in college. I see myself in Louie’s Lower Level at the University of Arizona–a restaurant (that wasn’t great) in the basement (since closed)–possibly with my friend, Scott. We were watching TV? Is this memory a lie? Even if it is, I knew of it superficially. It was a TV-event. Koresh was a nutcase. That’s what I knew. 

When I became older, Waco was where Chip and Joanna lived.

How close to historical events? My guess is pretty close. (I bet Johnston watched this documentary too; Did You, Kind Sir?) I think Johnston is careful to establish that he’s writing fiction, and he’s careful in obscuring his own biases; however, I bet there’s a lot of truth in here. Do you think it changed your perspective?

Lara: You know, reading develops our ability to empathize. And I think that a book like this enables readers to see the members of this fanatical man’s “church” as vulnerable, flawed, insecure, and easily preyed upon. It’s too easy to label his followers as insane or ridiculous, and that doesn’t get at what is really happening here and in these types of situations. It also shines a light on the Perry (David Koreshes) of the world. Are they manipulative megalomaniacs or do they have a mental break that has them honestly believing they are the next Messiah? I have more sympathy for his followers than I do for him (in fact, I have little to none for him) and I think any kind of story that helps us to better understand is a good thing.

“I aim to get right what no one else has: Perry Cullen was not a charismatic man. He was not articulate or intelligent. He bragged about leaving school before finishing eighth grade. In his youth, kids took to calling him Perry the Fairy and beating him so often that his mother would keep him home. She’d been a prostitute, which he also flaunted. ‘I’m the son of a whore, spawned from the seed of a double-dealing husband,’ he’d say. He was not handsome. He wore bottle thick-glasses and still had to squint to read the scripture.

But people put their faith in him. They listened to his claims of decoding the Bible, and it lit a glassy far away glow in their eyes. They signed over the savings and pensions. Sold their homes and property, shed careers and uprooted their families to live in squalor 20 miles outside of town… A year or so before the fires, they started calling him ‘the Lamb'”. – Roy

Jennifer: I have very little sympathy for him, to be honest, too. I do think the book “humanizes” his followers. But I’ll be honest: I think his religious followers are culpable too. The humanizing part, in my opinion, is that vulnerability to nutcases and culpability in accepting dogma are universal conditions. Human nature is such that we gotta watch out. 

What is your favorite aspect of the book? Were you drawn to a character or narrator? Did you like the podcast device? Were you wanting something in particular?

Lara: I loved Jaye and Roy, the two young lovers. They read as very authentic to me–young enough to be naive to more complex ways of the world and idealistic enough to think they could change the outcome. I also thought weaving in a modern-day podcast that interviewed people involved in the standoff with Perry was a creative touch and helped drive the story forward while helping to build the slow burn to the ultimate ending. 

Jennifer: I liked it all too. I liked Roy a little more than I liked Jaye–but not for any good reason. As we both noted in conversation, they’re good kids. These are not bad kids. Coop, Roy’s friend, is a good kid too. I liked the Sheriff. I liked the podcast. I was intrigued by it all. 

Did anything bug you about the book?

Lara: My biggest rub (and this is nitpicking) was that I wish the podcast episodes were covered in chronological order. That was a little hard to follow via audio. Oh, and Roy has a brother who adds a little drama and conflict to the family for no real apparent benefit. I think we could have done without him. It didn’t hurt the book, but I don’t think it helped either. 

Jennifer: I’m not sure I disliked anything! I see your points on Mason and chronology. The end threw me a little, but I’ll leave it there! It’s a good book!

By the way, you were hesitant to draw comparisons with Romeo and Juliet, but his epigraph and exact title is from Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet

Lara: I love that quote, despite not being a fan of Shakespeare. I think people are comparing Roy and Jaye to Romeo and Juliet because their names start with the same letters, they are in a seemingly inescapable situation, and they are teenagers. There’s so much difference. I think it’s a lazy comparison. 

Jennifer: Lara, you’re a crack-up—dissing William Shakespeare! What else have you been reading?

Lara: I feel like I am getting off to a slow start, but I have read two books I thoroughly enjoyed: Margo’s Got Money Troubles by Rufi Thorpe and at the complete opposite end of the spectrum, The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon. 

Jennifer: Well . . . due to peer pressure and literary guilt, I picked up The Lincoln Highway by Amor Towles, having once abandoned it (for unknown reasons). Get ready for my statement: Emmett, his little bro Billy, and two escapees from 1950s Kansas-style juvi (a working farm), Duchess and Woolly, go on a little journey across America (or to New York City) with some mild Huck Finn connotations and a little of Homer’s Odyssey too. Plus some New York fun and a hobo/train-hopping adventure with a little anti-racist sentiment thrown in (albeit stereotypical), and even some Harry Potter with a wise, old professor type and, like, a magic book!I Not to mention Of Mice and Men. I read two five-star books right out of the 2025 New-Year-Gates: I‘m Starting to Worry About This Black Box of Doom by Jason Pargin (this was great!) and Foster by Claire Keegan. Two books that I truly loved. 

Up Next!

Join us next time for a super hyped January 2025 read: The Heart of Winter by Jonathan Evison.